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Special notes

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Some categories may be listed in Category:Categories for deletion but accidently not listed here.

Discussion for Today

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This page is transcluded from Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2025_February_4


February 4

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NEW NOMINATIONS

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Category:Russian sculptors by federal subject

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Nominator's rationale: Redundant category layers that aren't unhelpful for navigation. These only contain folks from Dagestan. SMasonGarrison 13:36, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Women dictators

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Nominator's rationale: There is no super-category because of a previous deletion discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 May 22#Category:Dictators. This category suffers from the same fault: being an indeterminate category where subjective judgements are made regarding inclusion. This does not strike me as a verifiable, neutral or defining category as described at Wikipedia:Categorization#Categorizing articles. Celia Homeford (talk) 13:06, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Lithuanian guerrillas killed in action

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Nominator's rationale: reparent and rename. This redudant category layer is missing the parent category of Category:Lithuanian guerrillas SMasonGarrison 05:12, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Ante-Nicene Christian martyrs

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Nominator's rationale: per parent Category:Ancient Christian saints and Category:Ancient Christians. Also, the category tree contains articles well beyond the First Council of Nicaea. For example Abda and Abdisho died in 376. After the rename, Category:5th-century Christian martyrs can be added as a subcategory too. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:58, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: isn't there a distinct purpose in a category for Christians martyred prior to the widespread adoption of Christianity in the Roman Empire? I realize that the date for this is a bit fuzzy, but the Council of Nicaea seems as reasonable a date as any. Those martyred afterward would seem to have been martyred for different reasons—perhaps a case could be made for including those martyred by Romans who had yet to convert, though Abda and Abdisho apparently were martyred for a different reason and beyond Roman borders, so they and some others could probably be removed from this category.
Perhaps the solution could be a category titled "Ancient Christian martyrs" with a subcategory for Ante-Nicene martyrs, and which would separately include late Roman (or other) martyrs such as Abda and Abdisho. That would simply be a revision to the "martyr tree", so to speak. I note that I come at this from a non-Christian perspective; I am not particularly fond of the concept of martyrdom, but it is a valid topic in religious history, and it seems to make sense to distinguish between those who were martyred due to anti-Christian persecution by Romans and those martyred post-persecution elsewhere (*wonders if there are Post-Nicene pagan martyrs*). If this category is not preserved, then that distinction would be lost, and probably not to the benefit of the reader. P Aculeius (talk) 11:52, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    • There are enough articles just mentioning a death in the 4th century without specifying whether it was before or after 325, so the distinction isn't clear anyway. Besides Christianity became an accepted religion quite a few years before Nicaea. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:52, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
      Before the reign of Constantine (312–337) Christianity was widely persecuted, so there would have been many Christians martyred within the Roman empire. Though various dates from 311 (edict of Serdica) to 337 (death, and alleged deathbed conversion of Constantine, who may or may not have adopted Christianity informally as early as 312) could be used, the council of Nicaea, which he convened in 325, is a significant date in establishing a degree of uniformity for Christian worship, and probably did more to promote its acceptance than dubious stories about the Battle of the Milvian Bridge. After this it would be rare for Christians to be martyred within the Roman Empire, though of course they could be anywhere else that Christianity wasn't yet tolerated or adopted, and would continue to be for centuries. So it makes good sense to distinguish martyrs before 325 and after—or at least martyrs due to Roman persecution, which probably did not end all at once as soon as some decree was issued at Rome, though it probably had by the end of Constantine's reign—from later martyrs elsewhere. P Aculeius (talk) 17:01, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
      • So what do you suggest we do with Category:4th-century Christian martyrs with its many articles not specifying a year or specifying a year after 325? Should this subcategory be purged? Marcocapelle (talk) 19:46, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
        Since some of the contents of "4th-century Christian martyrs" are ante-Nicene, it can remain as a subcategory, the same as "Ford" could remain under "20th-century automobile manufacturers" even though it continues in business in the 21st century. Subcategories will often be partial matches for multiple parent categories. P Aculeius (talk) 21:29, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
        • But then the difference with "Ancient" as proposed is only the 5th century. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:18, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
          Assuming that the 5th century topic includes the entire century, then "Ancient Christian martyrs" would cover a span of about 450 years—about 275 before Nicaea, 175 after. That doesn't seem unreasonable as a division of the span, since each group would tend to share certain characteristics—most ante-Nicene martyrs would have been martyred in the Roman Empire either as part of or inspired by official persecutions; post-Nicaea most Christian martyrs would have been martyred elsewhere or for other reasons. P Aculeius (talk) 17:52, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Lots of productive discussion (good!); what does that mean for this category?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 19:26, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'm thinking we should keep this category as-is, a subcategory of Christian martyrs, which is already synonymous with the suggested "Ancient Christian martyrs", although I have no objection to substituting that title for the parent category. "Ante-Nicene Christian martyrs" seems like a valid distinction within the parent category, whatever that's called, since the reasons and occasions for martyrdom post-Nicaea make those persons distinguishable. P Aculeius (talk) 14:23, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Thoughts on P Aculeius's most recent comment?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:53, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Category:National highways

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Nominator's rationale: Categorisation by WP:SHAREDNAME that means different things in each of the different countries with member subcategories. I added Category:Highways by country to those that weren't already included via a parent, so it's now redundant. Paul_012 (talk) 22:52, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Thoughts on Marcocapelle's latest comment?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:23, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Virtual reality pioneers

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Nominator's rationale: From Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2025_January_19#Virtual_reality_->_Extended_reality:

Please renominate "Virtual reality pioneers" separately. The term is generally only used in retrospect and I don't think it's controversial to say VR is still developing in a way that it's hard for us to say who is and isn't a pioneer from the present vantage point.
— User:Axem Titanium 23:45, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

–LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 03:40, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose (keep). All the nominated categories can be kept without any deletions or renamings instead. 67.209.130.111 (talk) 05:35, 29 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Rename?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 02:50, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Bombycillidae

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Nominator's rationale: Bombycillidae is a monogeneric family. Nurg (talk) 01:32, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Music generated games

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Nominator's rationale: Raised by Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2025_January_10#Category:Video_games_with_custom_soundtrack_support due to its unclear title. The long description is mostly WP:OR, and defines the topic as video games that can read CD inputs. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:09, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Music-generated games are games in which the gameplay is generatively determined in a meaningful way by musical input. This is accomplished, in music-generated video games, by associating in-game elements such as landscape or enemy attack formations with elements from the musical input via waveform analysis algorithms.

Musical input typically consists of a standard CD in Red Book audio format. With musical input in this format, the game software will load into the console's RAM and allow the removal of the game disc such that any musical CD of the player's choosing may be inserted and accessed during the game. This allows for essentially limitless gameplay variability and is intended to enhance replay value.

Other music-generated video games do not allow the player to select his own input, but instead use pre-determined musical input generatively. Such games allow the designers to employ any musical format of their choosing thereby enabling maximal compression and thus maximal pre-determined song library. Generative portions of such games typically derive from music visualization algorithms.

Although music-generated games are typically classified as music games, there is no requirement that a music-generated game must fall under this genre or even that the player must hear the music serving to determine gameplay. Furthermore, since gameplay determination is required, games which allow nothing more than a custom soundtrack do not fit the definition of a music-generated game.

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Thoughts on Marcocapelle's suggestion?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 22:51, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Some of the members should be or already are included under Category:Rhythm games, but not all of them fall under the category. Generating gameplay content based on music input should probably be a defining aspect of these games, but other than a Steam Curator list[1] I'm only seeing Reddit and other forum posts that discuss them as a grouping. --Paul_012 (talk) 23:09, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Thoughts on Paul_012's comment?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 01:11, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Former churches by populated place

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Nominator's rationale: All contain 1-2 articles. Not useful for navigation. Merge per WP:NARROW. –Aidan721 (talk) 00:11, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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